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Zieppi
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Re: Losing interest?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:00 pm

KemosabeTBC wrote:
Zieppi wrote:
P.S. Do you like what is happening now? We don't even know what a patch was released...

No, but that doesn't mean that every single negative criticism is warranted, some are warranted, some are exaggerated.
About the patch notes, Henry is on vacation that's probably why nothing was posted, but there should be someone else available for that.

Okay.
Here's some critical comments. What is exaggerated and what is not? Your personal opinion. (I remember you said many times that have nothing to do with developers)

1) You do you agree with the fact that the number of players is rapidly decreasing?;
2) It is impossible to be at the top, without 20+ unavailable heroes;
3) The developers suck money out of players (this is a problem of players not developers, but still);
4) The lack of development of the game;
5) Lilith doesn't communicate with the players;
6) Random which has a strong impact on the game and defies logic.
 
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Rashar
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Re: Losing interest?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:12 pm

@ OP, well written post, really enjoyed reading it.

Goodluck in the new gaming adventures you're embarking on!
 
ashOck
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Re: Losing interest?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:22 pm

The game does seem to be on a downward spiral and feels like it is on a "cash out" mode of trying to maximize income before pulling the plug. How bad is it to get an update last night with no patch notes? So far, the only thing that our guild has figured out is that you will soon be able to purchase a skin for Salus with an ability much better than his awakening.

I am on server 2, L100, F2P and have little gameplay available. There are few new SS to acquire as they have withheld most of the excellent heroes from shops and raids in favor of offering them for purchase, starting with Sylphi. This broke the model of releasing them about four months after they came to CS. Well, that decision led to quite a few players leaving the game and this exodus is accelerating. Guild wars is mostly a joke since almost every war is a mismatch. I have topped out on heroic raid 17 and in the tower (meaning I am stuck on a level without finishing). And there are no heroes for me to spend dragon scales on since I have them all at seven stars.

So what is left? Going through CoF hoping for my first lucky hero (like a CS hero)? Fighting back into the top 100 in arena against mostly L15 tower players with a full stable of p2p heroes (many with the new skins)?

No, it is mostly biding time and hanging with my guild mates in a separate chat. And going through the motions since I have been enjoying the game for over two years and hope for a turnaround. Something as small as releasing level 18 raids with CS hero SS would help a lot.
 
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KemosabeTBC
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Re: Losing interest?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:25 pm

Zieppi wrote:
KemosabeTBC wrote:
Zieppi wrote:
P.S. Do you like what is happening now? We don't even know what a patch was released...

No, but that doesn't mean that every single negative criticism is warranted, some are warranted, some are exaggerated.
About the patch notes, Henry is on vacation that's probably why nothing was posted, but there should be someone else available for that.

Okay.
Here's some critical comments. What is exaggerated and what is not? Your personal opinion. (I remember you said many times that have nothing to do with developers)

1) You do you agree with the fact that the number of players is rapidly decreasing?;
2) It is impossible to be at the top, without 20+ unavailable heroes;
3) The developers suck money out of players (this is a problem of players not developers, but still);
4) The lack of development of the game;
5) Lilith doesn't communicate with the players;
6) Random which has a strong impact on the game and defies logic.


Here is my opinion:

1) I don't have a strong opinion on this. My perception is that some players leave the game while others join. But this is the case with almost any game in existence, you can only keep your customers interested for so long, they will lose interest eventually over time. Again this happens with every game, that's why many company focus on refreshing the playerbase instead of keeping their existing one. I don't necessarily agree with this approach but it does make some sense from a business perspective. Can't really tell anything more in depth than this without having access to the database and knowing exactly how many players leave and how many join.

2) I disagree. I was #1 in my server, every single day, from almost 2 years. Now, I do have some unavailable heroes but not the latest ones, and the ones I do have are 3*, also the majority of my arena teams is comprised of available heroes. Recently (for the past few weeks or so) I have been unable to be #1 consistently. I can still do it but there is one opponent that wins a lot more often than me now, when I first merged with him he had spent a lot more than me, and I was beating him more than he beat me, but now he just took it to a new level these past few weeks and he jumped from < 2k rune rating to ~8k, I have 2300 rune rating... It wasn't really because of the heroes that he has access to that I don't have, but this difference in quality he achieved for his heroes. This is something I can't do without paying (or at not least not in a reasonable amount of time), the specific heroes don't bother me so much, as I long as there are alternative good heroes to use - and they have actually been releasing good awakenings for old heroes. Up until now I used my resources smartly and my heroes were better geared than anyone on my server, regardless of being available heroes or not, I probably still have the most heroes with maxed academy on the server. But the runes do make a difference and I have a lot less than this person now.

But getting back to a direct answer to your question. It is possible to be "in the top" if you play it smartly. But, depending on much the top people in your server spend, you may be unable to be #1 or it may be harder to be in the top consistently.

3) I agree, and I see an interesting phenomenon here. Until I started playing this game I didn't realize these kind of business models even existed and were successful... I have played many games in my life, and I have a strong MMORPG background, what I have observed in the past, in other games, really makes me think "how is this possible?" I mean, I have played AAA games that have costed dozens of millions of dollars to develop (and this is not even on the upper side) and people complay that they have to pay to play them... I don't mean having to pay a lot, I mean having to pay at all. In a game I played recently there was no monthly fee and nothing to acquire in the game with real money besides cosmetics. They introduced one item, ONE, that costed 10 bucks and gave you some kind of advantage in the game (not *that* much), they never introduced any other item of this kind again, and suddenly "the sky was falling", fire and brimstone were raining, all hell break loose in the forums and people complained everywhere that the game was P2W. After all my experience in the past, it really boggles my mind how this business model has thrived. It seems to be something for the Asia market, but the fact is, it is working here in the west.

4) I don't agree nor disagree. I think the game is constantly being worked on, they are actively doing things for it, I just think that they could work on much more interesting features than they do.

5) I agree, partially. Henry does communicate with the players, mainly through LINE and Discord chats, and he does work for Lilith. But there should be more Lilith representants to interact with.

6) I strongly disagree. Random has a strong impact in any RPG, literally any RPG you can think of. And it also has an impact in almost any game genre, the exception being 100% skill based games like chess. But this is especially true of RPGs, and in fact I think it has a much less impact in soul hunters than you may think. If you try the exact same team, against the exact same opponent's team, without changing anything on either side (academy/runes/etc), and you attack them 100 times, you will see that there will be very little variation. Yes, sometimes you get lucky, or unlucky, but under the exact same conditions the outcome is very similar. I don't know how you would suggest this should be, have a game with 0 variance, zero RNG, and the outcome would be fixed with 100% the same results under the same conditions? This would make for a very, very, poor game.
 
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SuperPole
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Re: Losing interest?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:54 pm

I think you guys are really stressing out too much about it. Houndreds of players were saying the same thing about Heroes Charge! Oh servers are dying, people are leaving! Lilith doesnt listen to us! Game is pay to win!

1. All games are pay to win! But its an option do it or not! (Even new Star Wars game has got an rifle you can pay for to kill with one shot! Yes but its EA so no surprise!

2. You are not happy? Stop being a kid who doesnt know what he wants! Keep playing or leave! Stop creating acid around you.

3. Lilith doesnt listen? They do but they cant do shit about it! I know because i work for a compnay who makes pay2win games and lots of ideas and bugs fixes etc. are all being moved away because of company owners who are greedy or have better ideas than you or game designers/programmers!

4. People leave and people come in! Its organic growth and organic death... simple... Something ends and something beggins but only because few houdreds of people will leave doesnt mean game will die?! It only means some people will have to replace them in time. Either existing players or new ones that will take thier time or pay to reach hights!

5. ALL games have scripts and its ALL about the chances when pulling heroes, gear or any other premium items! Games are made to make you spend money! Some do it very softly so you dont notice but some are hardcore thievs! Soul Hunters is somwhere in between people... They are not that bad.

This message is directed to all of you. Calm down, dont stress out and think about how YOU can make the game better for you. They give us all they have and will give more. We have to make it interesting using our imagination sometimes. I get it. People are angry. And if you are, stop playing the game, instead of making other people think they should rebel and give one star!
 
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Dazz
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Re: Losing interest?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:25 pm

That sad realization that only 3 pay for heroes have been moved to the shops in the last 10 months. 22 have come out in that time, and only 3 have been made available. That's why people are unhappy.
 
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KemosabeTBC
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Re: Losing interest?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:46 pm

SuperPole wrote:
1. All games are pay to win! But its an option do it or not! (Even new Star Wars game has got an rifle you can pay for to kill with one shot! Yes but its EA so no surprise!!

Definitely not the case. In fact 99% of the games I have played in my entire life were not P2W. And P2W of any kind, even in games that cost orders of magnitude more to develop, is frowned upon.

Ironically P2W is almost always only seen in "Free to play" games. The kind of games that you don't have to buy, but where you can spend money in "microtransactions". You will not see P2W in almost any AAA "buy to play" game in the market.
 
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Snoupe
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Re: Losing interest?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:00 pm

I just want to include my self as a player that in not satisfied because of the same reasons and i do it because i still believe that the developers care about the players! I belive they read through the forum and they care about our concerns!
 
Emp
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Re: Losing interest?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:43 am

I have no problems with P2W-games. Developers gotta make some money, don't they?

The thing with Soul Hunters is that it used to be a great fun game for non-paying players. At the same time, there used to be nice extra's to get that edge for paying players. It all seemed in balance. In my opinion, this balance has been lost over the past year.

There exists a series of viable business models. For instance: you'll certainly be very successful if you achieve to keep both paying and non-paying players satisfied. In that scenario, non-paying players will mostly just take (a lot!) longer to achieve the same in-game goals than P2W-players, but there is a world of people who see a challenge in that. At the same time, P2W-players will encounter a lot F2P-players and truly experience their benefits over the non-paying contenders.

This seemed/used to be Soul Hunters business model. But I feel they have changed it into a payer's game with no special care to F2P-players.

That is their call, but by changing a business model you will risk customer distrust. This works in just about any field and is no different in game developing. This distrust entails both F2P and P2W-players... but first you need to see the red flag. All I am doing is try to warn Lilith not to carelessly change their business model, lest they will lose potential customers in other games as well.

Cheers,
Emp
 
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Dazz
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Re: Losing interest?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:10 am

Trust me when I say P2W players are also very unhappy with the game as well. VIP chat is nothing but rage for the last 3 months. Every time a patch comes out and Goram and Sylphi aren't released the chat rages. Truth is it cost so much to actually be a P2W in this game. Talking about 300+ per hero, and even then it can still be much worse due to the RNG model. Nobody can keep up, not even most us "P2W" people. I honestly like buying heroes because I'm a collector, most my pay for heroes sit at 3* or 4* and I would love to level them but can't because they aren't in the shops. Lilith's greed is screwing everyone right now and everyone is mad.

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