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Sargon
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Re: What is the purpose of permanent death on undead and mechs?

Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:06 am

Dazed wrote:
sorry bro but tryin to attack me cause i pointed out the 'actual' game mechanics isnt helping anybody. Those units are getting bonuses and buffs where the human units do not. There has to b a trade off or human will not be used. If u read the post above this is clearly stated and the rework of the entire system needs to be addressed. As for ya mass spider build it is far from the best pvp pve build, infact i would say its terrible and using 0 thought process of maximizing ur dps , ur just relying on delay with spiderlings into attrition which doesnt work against mass horse heal. Might be time to have a rethink instead of whinging then attacking ppl that are pointing out the obvious game mechanics.


Great explanation for why the general consensus that lich are the best pvp race is not true. You can keep running your mass horse heal into the 80% of the player base running spearmen just to have a slightly better shot at fighting lich. There's a thing called meta game, and scorp spider is at the top of it. Based on your tone, you sound a bit butt hurt that it even exists, so i'm guessing that you have been handed a few losses by lich players. Like where do you get the idea that lich can't maximize its army efficiency. Pre new academy, I personally maxed scorps %HP and % damage reduc and spiders % attack speed and % damage for exponential defensive and offensive scaling on my army. I've lost exactly zero duels running 5 gold spider, 4 silver spider, and 5 silver scorps. Not only has the comp never lost, i've never even seen a spider die. Plenty of loud mouthed fools such as yourself have walked their army into 5 days of hospital thinking that they can handle a late game lich army fully optimized for pvp.
 
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Dazed
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Re: What is the purpose of permanent death on undead and mechs?

Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:19 am

lol i can see u just want to continue ur attack rather than understanding the actual arguement. I can agree we disagree. Its a shame that u cant read and follow the dialogue that this is about 'Why do they perma die' . not how u can crush every1 with ya noob build then stil cry on forums u want more unit buffs for the same race .. time to come bak to earth and focus on the fact that ur saying lich already OP and u crying about wanting more buffs/heals/injuries .. wake up kid!
Work like you don't need the money, love like you've never been hurt and dance like no one is watching.
 
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Sargon
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Re: What is the purpose of permanent death on undead and mechs?

Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:27 am

Dazed wrote:
lol i can see u just want to continue ur attack rather than understanding the actual arguement. I can agree we disagree. Its a shame that u cant read and follow the dialogue that this is about 'Why do they perma die' . not how u can crush every1 with ya noob build then stil cry on forums u want more unit buffs for the same race .. time to come bak to earth and focus on the fact that ur saying lich already OP and u crying about wanting more buffs/heals/injuries .. wake up kid!


You can keep wasting your time trolling the forums for a mobile app.
 
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Dazed
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Re: What is the purpose of permanent death on undead and mechs?

Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:12 am

Sargon wrote:
Dazed wrote:
lol i can see u just want to continue ur attack rather than understanding the actual arguement. I can agree we disagree. Its a shame that u cant read and follow the dialogue that this is about 'Why do they perma die' . not how u can crush every1 with ya noob build then stil cry on forums u want more unit buffs for the same race .. time to come bak to earth and focus on the fact that ur saying lich already OP and u crying about wanting more buffs/heals/injuries .. wake up kid!


You can keep wasting your time trolling the forums for a mobile app.


Well isnt that what ur doing instead of engaging in a constructive conversation? , u havnt rebutted the fact that they are getting all the bonuses and buffs and u stil want no downside , getting all hot under the collar doesnt make you right and then ur own reply even tells how OP those races are atm especially lich. As mentioned in some the above posts the system isnt working properly and needs to be addressed but just ignoring the bonuses and buffs and crying about u want them more OP isnt a valid arguement. Plz give ur posts some more thought b4 making urself look so silly.
Work like you don't need the money, love like you've never been hurt and dance like no one is watching.
 
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hengli
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Re: What is the purpose of permanent death on undead and mechs?

Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:05 am

Dazed and Sargon please stop with the personal attacks if you don't want to get a warning.

Thanks
 
Nomablade
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Re: What is the purpose of permanent death on undead and mechs?

Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:43 am

From what I gathered about old patches, every unit used to be permadeath, but then they released the hospital. Obviously this made certain units a lot stronger than others, and as such they buffed mechs and tanks a bit and have extra utility to undead. However, because all the units in the game were originally balanced around permadeath, they made need some more fine tuning to get ir right.

However, in my server one of the most popular races is dwarf. They may not be up to par with lich much for pvp, but siege they are far superior. The combination of ranged damage reduction on a bulky base make mechs incredibly difficult to bring down during a siege, and being backed up by extra wall damage rockets allows me to often go lossless in my many attacks. If mechs were any better, or if you could easily just repair them without cost, I would probably stomp on the entire server. If you think mechs and tanks are bad, you're probably playing with a sub optimal formation with inefficient research against bad matchups.
Just to prove a point I took down a human of about the same power as me with 3 gold packs and the seraph, while I was just using 4 gold rocket packs. Only 1 of my 15 mechs died.
 
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Sargon
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Re: What is the purpose of permanent death on undead and mechs?

Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:56 pm

Nomablade wrote:
From what I gathered about old patches, every unit used to be permadeath, but then they released the hospital. Obviously this made certain units a lot stronger than others, and as such they buffed mechs and tanks a bit and have extra utility to undead. However, because all the units in the game were originally balanced around permadeath, they made need some more fine tuning to get ir right.

However, in my server one of the most popular races is dwarf. They may not be up to par with lich much for pvp, but siege they are far superior. The combination of ranged damage reduction on a bulky base make mechs incredibly difficult to bring down during a siege, and being backed up by extra wall damage rockets allows me to often go lossless in my many attacks. If mechs were any better, or if you could easily just repair them without cost, I would probably stomp on the entire server. If you think mechs and tanks are bad, you're probably playing with a sub optimal formation with inefficient research against bad matchups.
Just to prove a point I took down a human of about the same power as me with 3 gold packs and the seraph, while I was just using 4 gold rocket packs. Only 1 of my 15 mechs died.


I'll rephrase on the dwarf mech units. I don't think they are actually bad units in a duel or a seige. I've only had one 300k+ dwarf ever actually fight me, and he was easily the strongest non-lich opponent i had ever fought. The mechs are actually really good at tanking spiders which are really what are dealing a majority of lich damage. Anyway, my opinion is that permanent death is a very high burden to bare for the slight, and arguable, advantages of mech and undead. To me, its an anti-fun mechanic to have in the game since it just gives incentive to take no risks and play passively, or in the case of lich, just never use those units. Lich, on the contrary to dwarf, is actually very likely to lose its undead units even in dungeons, as 2 of the 3 are light armor and the third is a melee swarm unit. As far as gold squads or armies based around undead, they are totally not viable. To put this into perspective, since you likely have some exp on human, imagine if your spearmen or priestesses had perma death.

That being said, i don't disagree that there needs to be some trade off if you're going to be poison immune, morale immune etc. I just don't know if permanent death is the answer in a game where you have to optimize your usage of the rare resources. I would look for other ways to bring balance to those units, such as longer hospital times or a repair cost that is a fraction of the units total build cost.
 
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dorianGREY
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Re: What is the purpose of permanent death on undead and mechs?

Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:30 pm

Sargon wrote:
Nomablade wrote:
From what I gathered about old patches, every unit used to be permadeath, but then they released the hospital. Obviously this made certain units a lot stronger than others, and as such they buffed mechs and tanks a bit and have extra utility to undead. However, because all the units in the game were originally balanced around permadeath, they made need some more fine tuning to get ir right.

However, in my server one of the most popular races is dwarf. They may not be up to par with lich much for pvp, but siege they are far superior. The combination of ranged damage reduction on a bulky base make mechs incredibly difficult to bring down during a siege, and being backed up by extra wall damage rockets allows me to often go lossless in my many attacks. If mechs were any better, or if you could easily just repair them without cost, I would probably stomp on the entire server. If you think mechs and tanks are bad, you're probably playing with a sub optimal formation with inefficient research against bad matchups.
Just to prove a point I took down a human of about the same power as me with 3 gold packs and the seraph, while I was just using 4 gold rocket packs. Only 1 of my 15 mechs died.


I'll rephrase on the dwarf mech units. I don't think they are actually bad units in a duel or a seige. I've only had one 300k+ dwarf ever actually fight me, and he was easily the strongest non-lich opponent i had ever fought. The mechs are actually really good at tanking spiders which are really what are dealing a majority of lich damage. Anyway, my opinion is that permanent death is a very high burden to bare for the slight, and arguable, advantages of mech and undead. To me, its an anti-fun mechanic to have in the game since it just gives incentive to take no risks and play passively, or in the case of lich, just never use those units. Lich, on the contrary to dwarf, is actually very likely to lose its undead units even in dungeons, as 2 of the 3 are light armor and the third is a melee swarm unit. As far as gold squads or armies based around undead, they are totally not viable. To put this into perspective, since you likely have some exp on human, imagine if your spearmen or priestesses had perma death.

That being said, i don't disagree that there needs to be some trade off if you're going to be poison immune, morale immune etc. I just don't know if permanent death is the answer in a game where you have to optimize your usage of the rare resources. I would look for other ways to bring balance to those units, such as longer hospital times or a repair cost that is a fraction of the units total build cost.


this here sargon, bang on the mark. I have a 300k dwarf and I love it, but dazeds king just whooped my ass and man it killed my fun to lose 10 gold mechs and 6 silver tanks in 1 fight simply for not thinking he could repair a full gold army in under 12 hours. My mistake yes, but it would cost no other race that much, and it is anti-fun for such a fun race. Also LORE-wise, it makes no sense. You cant repair machines but human soldiers barely ever die in wars? thats just silly logic by any means no matter what game mechanics got added.

if anything, the risk reward of units dying and not dying is round the wrong way for the races, humans are made of flesh and bone, they should die more than anything.
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Danur
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Re: What is the purpose of permanent death on undead and mechs?

Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:29 am

Humans are massively OP in the current meta. Angels literrally execute giant golden units and with high level avalon and elena you can just simply win even with mostly bronze units due to summ abilities and insane injury rates.
On the contrary dwraf is absolutely garbage when it comes to duel ...perma death of goldens/silver mech is nonsense...
 
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Kryton13
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Re: What is the purpose of permanent death on undead and mechs?

Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:52 pm

Dwarf mechs are an incredibly powerful unit with an interesting downside. I am sitting at 400k power and can beat players on the enemy team who have 600k power. I like that they have this unique problem but that it allows them to be so powerful. Please do not get rid of this mechanic. People who are unable to deal with it should just use different units/race.
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