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shyke
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Jacques and overall hero balance in duels

Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:48 am

Hey all I figured I would post in here about the overall hero balance in the game and for the majority of the heroes they are very well balanced though admittedly without spending thousands of dollars for how I would want to test them side by side at first glance they appear balanced.... That is until you see the absurd difference between Jacques/Tiadrin and every other hero in the game. The main reason why Jacques currently is so brokenly absurd is because there is absolutely no counter to him in-game other than himself literally zero a decent jacques if you know how to work him will solo an entire field of silver by himself at t4/5 and thats just early in the game later in the game he can get even more stats so if you prepare properly even a rank 5 silver sword summon onto his face or behind him doesn't phase him at all he just cuts through them and your entire wing within 10 seconds like its a joke. The only remote counter to him (excluding himself) is either tiadrin permanently stunning him with her 25% auto skill (if she even makes it there) or Rufio leaping onto him to stop firestorm or spray and pray, however even if rufio does that well nothing happens he just gets shredded afterwards and dies because he cant stop jacques from auto attacking and you saved him some ammo so he can just auto even more. Tiadrin on the other hand is almost as bad if you know how to work her, the non stop aura damage she has does almost as much damage as blizzard did pre-buff but its always on and always going off on viable targets. People say shes really weak but after playing with her shes one of the most insane heroes ingame, sure she doesn't do anything flashy like Cleo's old black hole but with her non stop damage and her heal instantly healing your other heroes to full shes easily one of the best just because you do not require to do anything to make her extremely useful.

Every hero in this game should have a counter in some form Jacques currently does not have one, Tiadrin on the other hand has a few soft ones if you could consider them counters (Vega favor and Elena Magic damage reduction aura) but one of those she also helps counter and the other just cuts her damage by 9%-50% depending on how much it is leveled.

Also before people come in and join in on the "but he costs 3 energy to deploy!" train you get 3 energy pots everyday from patron and if you use them all on jacques you can literally field him every single time you are using all your other heroes so its not that big of a drawback if you choose targets carefully and not use him for things you dont really need to its not that big of a drawback for fielding a hero that wins fights with pure copper by himself just because he's broken. On server 100 we have a list of all known jacques players so the people that actually enjoy dueling don't run into them face first and have 3-12 hours of heal time just because some Jacques ruins all their fun and only getting 40 honor for it while the other side depending on how much damage they do gets off with 200-600 honor depending on what was fielded from the other.

I do enjoy duelling in this game i really do it's one of the more entertaining things to do but currently between people hero dropping on you to burn your energy, copper dropping with jacques, or solo hero drop due to them not having energy and just doing it for spite makes it really really hard to enjoy dueling people constantly. All I want honestly is to have people field armies and just slug it out and have a good time but the game makes it hard to enjoy fights with two problems compounding the problem making it stale and not worth the effort to find a good fight.

Just for show and tell I'm adding a few pictures keep in mind that this server (100) is 9 days old and these are the numbers the two heroes are pulling;
Tiadrin (my little experiment to see how good an 11 dollar tiadrin is)
Screenshot_20170910-201405.png

A jacques player that copper dropped on me
Screenshot_20170911-182328.png

And finally just for shits and giggles a housemates Jacques beating on an open wall (31 might)
Screenshot_20170908-222912.png


Keep in mind my tiadrin is f2p ive only bought a few stat cards from the shop for her and i'm unclear how much the dwarf players jacques had for stats or his gear and I'll ask one of my jacques housemates on how much damage his does with what stats but i've yet to see one on 100 (fighting against or watching a housemate use them) do less than 100k damage unless they get sniped from the other jacques first.

If anyone else has pictures of Jacques or Tiadrin doing crazy numbers feel free to post them also to raise awareness of these two.
 
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Zinek
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Re: Jacques and overall hero balance in duels

Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:53 am

I agree hole heartily.
My player guide for The Art of Conquest. If you have any questions feel free to ask them. You can find me here or on this forum or on the offical AoC discord just @Zinek

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=13293
 
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dorianGREY
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Re: Jacques and overall hero balance in duels

Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:09 am

He is an entirely broken hero in the current meta. Rose might win a battle for you realistically but jaques will win a battle without you deploying more than bronze as well as doing realistically 3x more damage than any other unit in the game. The fact that every new server is just dominated by any race with jaques as a first buy goes to show hes become the new cleo from pre-nerf.

Lillith needs to find a way to balance out jaques or the game will get very stale late game.
"Corn chips is no place for a mighty warrior"

Also Known as - Kenshin Himura
Rufio 54 - Crown Prince
Dragonroost 62 - Ex-Icarum King, Ex-Neferak King
Swanshire 102 - Skarn - House Ragnarok
 
sunbow
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Re: Jacques and overall hero balance in duels

Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:44 pm

hello everyone,

i agree that jacques is too strong in early game, but in my experience he seems ok in late game.
i did not buy additional skill or attribute points for him and he is at 34 might, level 21.

i did not skill the first skill, rocket launcher maxed and using the ultimate instead of skill 1.

IMG_3004.jpg
 
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shyke
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Re: Jacques and overall hero balance in duels

Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:58 pm

sunbow wrote:
hello everyone,

i agree that jacques is too strong in early game, but in my experience he seems ok in late game.
i did not buy additional skill or attribute points for him and he is at 34 might, level 21.

i did not skill the first skill, rocket launcher maxed and using the ultimate instead of skill 1.

IMG_3004.jpg


Im sorry to say this but I don't think you should have a jacques at only 34 might at t10 the people I faced regularly on server 61 generally had minimum of 40-50 might at t7-8 which still at that tier was okayish to deal with but then there were those people with 80might/20stam jacques that soloed t8-9 gold spiders within a second with no ammo. Sure later he is technically easier to deal with as long as you don't run across a jacques that is stat capped on everything but having a jacques early on in the servers life (again 100 is 9 days old) with 31 might will literally make everything you do a joke because of how stupidly broken he is. You may feel safe being able to scrounge up some golds to fit into your garrison but if its not on the wall it means absolutely nothing because a jacques will just wipe any of the golds deployed on the ground with zero effort and now you're garrison that you figured would be okay is dead and there was absolutely nothing you could've done more just due to how rediculous jacques is early on. If you still want to claim jacques is "fine" late game sure but right now hes making the early game when people are actually duelling for honor extremely toxic and I'm sure people have quit over losing an entire field of silver to a copper line with jacques standing there soloing the entire field.

Look at the guy that beat me his jacques did 250k damage in a duel at tier 4, how in the actual hell can you counter that? The duel took literally not even 20 seconds the rest of his army didn't even do as much as a single hero did whats worse is that's not even the most powerful jacques on the server there are 4 or 5 more that are even better than his just being a plague and creating a situation where you throw away an army take the flag just to expend energy on the jacques in hopes he runs out of energy and leaves. To me that's absolutely unacceptable that you have to throw away players time and effort like that just to stop a guy that knows what to do with jacques no hero should have their "counter" be to throw as many people into the grinder till they leave.

And god forbid they field silver or golds with jacques as soon as you see that there is nothing you can do might as well just walk away and come back after the duels over because there is really no winning that unless you have a jacques yourself or you out tier him and can somehow kill it before it cuts your entire wing to ribbons.
 
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dorianGREY
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Re: Jacques and overall hero balance in duels

Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:06 pm

Jaques is an anti-fun hero for those who dont own him.
"Corn chips is no place for a mighty warrior"

Also Known as - Kenshin Himura
Rufio 54 - Crown Prince
Dragonroost 62 - Ex-Icarum King, Ex-Neferak King
Swanshire 102 - Skarn - House Ragnarok
 
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Zinek
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Re: Jacques and overall hero balance in duels

Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:41 pm

Bumping thread
My player guide for The Art of Conquest. If you have any questions feel free to ask them. You can find me here or on this forum or on the offical AoC discord just @Zinek

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=13293
 
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Last
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Re: Jacques and overall hero balance in duels

Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:45 pm

dorianGREY wrote:
Jaques is an anti-fun hero for those who dont own him.

Actually same you can write about gold spiders... Or vega + elena + bishop combo...
 
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Zinek
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Re: Jacques and overall hero balance in duels

Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:18 pm

Last wrote:
dorianGREY wrote:
Jaques is an anti-fun hero for those who dont own him.

Actually same you can write about gold spiders... Or vega + elena + bishop combo...


Spiders have a counter aka priests. Vega has a counter called she's squishy summon swords on her face she dies and you crush backline.

Jacques you summon swords on him he kills the swords spawns a morale boost for allies and kills the rest of your army.
My player guide for The Art of Conquest. If you have any questions feel free to ask them. You can find me here or on this forum or on the offical AoC discord just @Zinek

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=13293
 
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dorianGREY
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Re: Jacques and overall hero balance in duels

Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:54 pm

Zinek wrote:
Last wrote:
dorianGREY wrote:
Jaques is an anti-fun hero for those who dont own him.

Actually same you can write about gold spiders... Or vega + elena + bishop combo...


Spiders have a counter aka priests. Vega has a counter called she's squishy summon swords on her face she dies and you crush backline.

Jacques you summon swords on him he kills the swords spawns a morale boost for allies and kills the rest of your army.


this. The only counter to jaques is another jaques.
"Corn chips is no place for a mighty warrior"

Also Known as - Kenshin Himura
Rufio 54 - Crown Prince
Dragonroost 62 - Ex-Icarum King, Ex-Neferak King
Swanshire 102 - Skarn - House Ragnarok
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