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Zinek
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Re: Jacques is the key

Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:21 pm

Jacques was much weaker due to worse items and no easy way to level him so he was locked to whales only and whales would break you anyway so it was whatever.

We took cities just fine before everyone used jacques on older servers I don’t know what your problem is. Yes even full gold ones.
My player guide for The Art of Conquest. If you have any questions feel free to ask them. You can find me here or on this forum or on the offical AoC discord just @Zinek

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=13293
 
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Hiems
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Re: Jacques is the key

Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:51 pm

Well you can argue that he have been buffed indirectly and I agree on it, but he still pretty much the same, the only difference is that before we had heroes that would do better without many cards. No whale needs Jacques and that's exactly what I said some posts ago to the person who made this topic.
 
Leghion
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Re: Jacques is the key

Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:01 pm

Hiems wrote:
Well you can argue that he have been buffed indirectly and I agree on it, but he still pretty much the same, the only difference is that before we had heroes that would do better without many cards. No whale needs Jacques and that's exactly what I said some posts ago to the person who made this topic.


No the buffs are completly different its not about "without jacques i can kill a garrison faster/easier". It completly changes EVERYTHING.

What happens if you attack a golden garrison with bronze without jacques? Nothing will happen. Garrison will lose maybe 1-2 units (not squads). If you attack with silver+gold you probably will kill it, but you will have also losses. If you dont put catapults in your setup you will probably die due to the fact, that the walled units alone will kill all of your setup at the end.

With jacque its totally and completly different. Because jacques is so insanly fast, he can burst down SQUADS not just units in the first few seconds while bronze is tanking. Your risk is exactly zero. You dont risk. Since jacques is a siege weapon as well you dont need catapults.

The difference is: without jacques you have to risk your gold and silver, which is greatly limited in amounts, you cant hit 10 times with your silver/gold. But bronze isnt limited, you can attack 20 times with bronze without risk and NO garrison will survive that.

And its not true that jacques didnt change. Free XP + Cards + crafting Equip + the change to his ammo capacity made him what he is.
His biggest source of dmg is his level (basic attack) and the multiplicators might and ability points, which are now extremly common and easy to get.
 
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PrinceCharming
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Re: Jacques is the key

Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:27 pm

So you suggest to change him and hit full gold garrizons with gold units, that take weeks to create + collect resources on them?
 
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tonzkie04
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Re: Jacques is the key

Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:50 pm

PrinceCharming wrote:
So you suggest to change him and hit full gold garrizons with gold units, that take weeks to create + collect resources on them?

Thats how it should be, as much as i like jaques. The bronze + jaques is a cheat imo.
 
Leghion
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Re: Jacques is the key

Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:51 pm

PrinceCharming wrote:
So you suggest to change him and hit full gold garrizons with gold units, that take weeks to create + collect resources on them?


Erm... yes?
Exactly what it always have been.
Thats what your garrison is for, protecting your castle and your rss. You dont build 20-30 golden squads and put them into your garrison to get destroyed by bronze jacques.
 
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Hiems
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Re: Jacques is the key

Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:16 pm

Leghion wrote:
Hiems wrote:
Well you can argue that he have been buffed indirectly and I agree on it, but he still pretty much the same, the only difference is that before we had heroes that would do better without many cards. No whale needs Jacques and that's exactly what I said some posts ago to the person who made this topic.


No the buffs are completly different its not about "without jacques i can kill a garrison faster/easier". It completly changes EVERYTHING.

What happens if you attack a golden garrison with bronze without jacques? Nothing will happen. Garrison will lose maybe 1-2 units (not squads). If you attack with silver+gold you probably will kill it, but you will have also losses. If you dont put catapults in your setup you will probably die due to the fact, that the walled units alone will kill all of your setup at the end.

With jacque its totally and completly different. Because jacques is so insanly fast, he can burst down SQUADS not just units in the first few seconds while bronze is tanking. Your risk is exactly zero. You dont risk. Since jacques is a siege weapon as well you dont need catapults.

The difference is: without jacques you have to risk your gold and silver, which is greatly limited in amounts, you cant hit 10 times with your silver/gold. But bronze isnt limited, you can attack 20 times with bronze without risk and NO garrison will survive that.

And its not true that jacques didnt change. Free XP + Cards + crafting Equip + the change to his ammo capacity made him what he is.
His biggest source of dmg is his level (basic attack) and the multiplicators might and ability points, which are now extremly common and easy to get.


I'm done arguing with you, you don't need to quote me if you don't understand what I said before. I will repeat one last time: someone higher level than you will clear you wall no matter if he got Jacques or not, when people talk about Jacques (or you expect it) is between siege of players of equal level, or when the defender is higher level than you, not the opposite. This is when Jacques make a difference. Those are indirect buffs that you mentioned, they will affect all heroes, the direct is ammo capacity only.
Last edited by Hiems on Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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PrinceCharming
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Re: Jacques is the key

Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:18 pm

Sorry but this is ridiculous :)lots of people will tell you the same.
The Lilith will just find the way to make other heroes same powerful as Jacques.
If they break Jacques, the game will collapse from Apple refunds.
But this is not my concern.
My concern is that building 5-6 gold squads for a week for just 1 attack (to the gold Garrison that can hold enough troops to hold 10-15 such attacks) gives all the fun away from the game, which is not a priority of any game developer.
 
Leghion
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Re: Jacques is the key

Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:30 pm

Hiems wrote:
Leghion wrote:
Hiems wrote:
Well you can argue that he have been buffed indirectly and I agree on it, but he still pretty much the same, the only difference is that before we had heroes that would do better without many cards. No whale needs Jacques and that's exactly what I said some posts ago to the person who made this topic.


No the buffs are completly different its not about "without jacques i can kill a garrison faster/easier". It completly changes EVERYTHING.

What happens if you attack a golden garrison with bronze without jacques? Nothing will happen. Garrison will lose maybe 1-2 units (not squads). If you attack with silver+gold you probably will kill it, but you will have also losses. If you dont put catapults in your setup you will probably die due to the fact, that the walled units alone will kill all of your setup at the end.

With jacque its totally and completly different. Because jacques is so insanly fast, he can burst down SQUADS not just units in the first few seconds while bronze is tanking. Your risk is exactly zero. You dont risk. Since jacques is a siege weapon as well you dont need catapults.

The difference is: without jacques you have to risk your gold and silver, which is greatly limited in amounts, you cant hit 10 times with your silver/gold. But bronze isnt limited, you can attack 20 times with bronze without risk and NO garrison will survive that.

And its not true that jacques didnt change. Free XP + Cards + crafting Equip + the change to his ammo capacity made him what he is.
His biggest source of dmg is his level (basic attack) and the multiplicators might and ability points, which are now extremly common and easy to get.


I'm done arguing with you, you don't need to quote me if you don't understand what I said before. I will repeat one last time: someone higher level than you will clear you wall no matter if he got Jacques or not, when people talk about Jacques (or you expect it) is between siege of players of equal level, or when the defender is higher level than you, not the opposite. This is when Jacques make a difference. Those are indirect buffs that you mentioned, they will affect all heroes, the direct is ammo capacity only.


You are not arguing you are repeating false informations. Its not about anyone being higher or lower. Its simply the burst concept of jaqcues. He can kill full squads of gold units without losses before it is possible to kill him.
And no, wrong again, there is no other hero in the game that can do the same not even rose, which is another 3 energy hero.
Watch the legend rony video. He has level 13 gold troops and jacques with 0 abilty points is outdmging them. He said himself he agrees that jacques is op.
Last edited by Leghion on Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Leghion
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Re: Jacques is the key

Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:34 pm

PrinceCharming wrote:
Sorry but this is ridiculous :)lots of people will tell you the same.
The Lilith will just find the way to make other heroes same powerful as Jacques.
If they break Jacques, the game will collapse from Apple refunds.
But this is not my concern.
My concern is that building 5-6 gold squads for a week for just 1 attack (to the gold Garrison that can hold enough troops to hold 10-15 such attacks) gives all the fun away from the game, which is not a priority of any game developer.


Once again it has always been like this, 30 gold squads in your garrison are meant to hold it, not to die to 3 bronze attacks with jacques. Jacques is an anomaly and has broken the whole game concept. Read the patch notes of nerfing avalon and co. They nerfed them because they did not want virtual armies to kill gold units. Jacques doesnt even need to summon anything.
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