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PrinceCharming
Knight
Knight
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:02 am

Re: Jacques is the key

Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:43 pm

Leghion wrote:
PrinceCharming wrote:
Sorry but this is ridiculous :)lots of people will tell you the same.
The Lilith will just find the way to make other heroes same powerful as Jacques.
If they break Jacques, the game will collapse from Apple refunds.
But this is not my concern.
My concern is that building 5-6 gold squads for a week for just 1 attack (to the gold Garrison that can hold enough troops to hold 10-15 such attacks) gives all the fun away from the game, which is not a priority of any game developer.


Once again it has always been like this, 30 gold squads in your garrison are meant to hold it, not to die to 3 bronze attacks with jacques. Jacques is an anomaly and has broken the whole game concept. Read the patch notes of nerfing avalon and co. They nerfed them because they did not want virtual armies to kill gold units. Jacques doesnt even need to summon anything.

He is not virtual. He is $100 from the beginning, + much more for his stats :)
Then, if that was always like this, why do you think they have introduced Jacques as such an OP machine for siege?
60% of current auditory would already leave this game long ago without him.
You can not afford yourself creating an army for a long time and lose in 2 minutes.
This is not about resources.
it is about time spent.
 
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Hiems
Baron
Baron
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:39 pm

Re: Jacques is the key

Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:49 pm

Leghion wrote:
Hiems wrote:
Leghion wrote:

No the buffs are completly different its not about "without jacques i can kill a garrison faster/easier". It completly changes EVERYTHING.

What happens if you attack a golden garrison with bronze without jacques? Nothing will happen. Garrison will lose maybe 1-2 units (not squads). If you attack with silver+gold you probably will kill it, but you will have also losses. If you dont put catapults in your setup you will probably die due to the fact, that the walled units alone will kill all of your setup at the end.

With jacque its totally and completly different. Because jacques is so insanly fast, he can burst down SQUADS not just units in the first few seconds while bronze is tanking. Your risk is exactly zero. You dont risk. Since jacques is a siege weapon as well you dont need catapults.

The difference is: without jacques you have to risk your gold and silver, which is greatly limited in amounts, you cant hit 10 times with your silver/gold. But bronze isnt limited, you can attack 20 times with bronze without risk and NO garrison will survive that.

And its not true that jacques didnt change. Free XP + Cards + crafting Equip + the change to his ammo capacity made him what he is.
His biggest source of dmg is his level (basic attack) and the multiplicators might and ability points, which are now extremly common and easy to get.


I'm done arguing with you, you don't need to quote me if you don't understand what I said before. I will repeat one last time: someone higher level than you will clear you wall no matter if he got Jacques or not, when people talk about Jacques (or you expect it) is between siege of players of equal level, or when the defender is higher level than you, not the opposite. This is when Jacques make a difference. Those are indirect buffs that you mentioned, they will affect all heroes, the direct is ammo capacity only.


You are not arguing you are repeating false informations. Its not about anyone being higher or lower. Its simply the burst concept of jaqcues. He can kill full squads of gold units without losses before it is possible to kill him.
And no, wrong again, there is no other hero in the game that can do the same not even rose, which is another 3 energy hero.
Watch the legend rony video. He has level 13 gold troops and jacques with 0 abilty points is outdmging them. He committed himself he agrees that jacques is op.


I have no idea who's "the legend rony" but if you never saw the impact of a buffed Avalon, Virion or Vega on a lvl 13 gold troop, what can I say... hat's if you want to talk about free heroes only. A buffed Bane at the moment is as much scary as a Jacques, my housemate wipe lower lvls gold walls easily with his Vallari at least once a day since she costs so much mana and I have two liches on my house doing at least 600k damage with Rose per siege with bronzes, not to mention the buffs to bronze spiders (that will kill your weak human golds) and Gan buff to scorpions. I have a lvl 20 Rose myself, never bothered with her and she does 200k damage per siege with 30 magic and some command easily. As I said, if someone is higher level than you, any hero will wipe you wall easily, the talk is about players of same level or the defense side being higher level.
 
Leghion
Knight
Knight
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:06 pm

Re: Jacques is the key

Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:46 pm

PrinceCharming wrote:
Leghion wrote:
PrinceCharming wrote:
Sorry but this is ridiculous :)lots of people will tell you the same.
The Lilith will just find the way to make other heroes same powerful as Jacques.
If they break Jacques, the game will collapse from Apple refunds.
But this is not my concern.
My concern is that building 5-6 gold squads for a week for just 1 attack (to the gold Garrison that can hold enough troops to hold 10-15 such attacks) gives all the fun away from the game, which is not a priority of any game developer.


Once again it has always been like this, 30 gold squads in your garrison are meant to hold it, not to die to 3 bronze attacks with jacques. Jacques is an anomaly and has broken the whole game concept. Read the patch notes of nerfing avalon and co. They nerfed them because they did not want virtual armies to kill gold units. Jacques doesnt even need to summon anything.

He is not virtual. He is $100 from the beginning, + much more for his stats :)
Then, if that was always like this, why do you think they have introduced Jacques as such an OP machine for siege?
60% of current auditory would already leave this game long ago without him.
You can not afford yourself creating an army for a long time and lose in 2 minutes.
This is not about resources.
it is about time spent.


He is 10/100 like any other hero. Nothing special about his price but he is the only hero that can bronze raid full gold garrisons.
Noone had maxed jacques earlier because he was limited in EP and he was never an issue. Now he is and since he is now its time to take a look at his balance like they already did with cleo.
 
ddelucca
Baron
Baron
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:50 am

Re: Jacques is the key

Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:35 am

You should not be able to solo bronze wipe someone's walls around or above your power level. It is simply ludicrous. Bronze attacks with enough burst from a single source (Jacques) to take multiple gold groups mean you can make 10+ consecutive attacks and break the garrison by yourself without any risk whatsoever, potions can be easily stockpiled. A good garrison that gets wiped out will takes weeks to recover, and the wall will also take weeks.

I had enough. I am not spending $60 for a hero that is a requirement to play the game properly, and I am not spending to keep up with production because I don't have Jacques to be able to bronze solo clear any garrison for me to get my resources from.
 
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Kryton13
Knight
Knight
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:20 pm

Re: Jacques is the key

Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:29 am

PrinceCharming wrote:
Leghion wrote:
PrinceCharming wrote:
Sorry but this is ridiculous :)lots of people will tell you the same.
The Lilith will just find the way to make other heroes same powerful as Jacques.
If they break Jacques, the game will collapse from Apple refunds.
But this is not my concern.
My concern is that building 5-6 gold squads for a week for just 1 attack (to the gold Garrison that can hold enough troops to hold 10-15 such attacks) gives all the fun away from the game, which is not a priority of any game developer.


Once again it has always been like this, 30 gold squads in your garrison are meant to hold it, not to die to 3 bronze attacks with jacques. Jacques is an anomaly and has broken the whole game concept. Read the patch notes of nerfing avalon and co. They nerfed them because they did not want virtual armies to kill gold units. Jacques doesnt even need to summon anything.

He is not virtual. He is $100 from the beginning, + much more for his stats :)
Then, if that was always like this, why do you think they have introduced Jacques as such an OP machine for siege?
60% of current auditory would already leave this game long ago without him.
You can not afford yourself creating an army for a long time and lose in 2 minutes.
This is not about resources.
it is about time spent.


It is not a problem to raid full gold garrisons without Jacques. At high level Jacques is actually mostly irrelevant anyway.
Realm 14
Faction: Neferak
House: 'The Autobots'
Player Name: 'Kryton13'
Race: Dwarf
 
AnimeGuy
Squire
Squire
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:42 am

Re: Jacques is the key

Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:18 am

Bronze level does matter, I have seen gold garrisons with lvl 8-9 units get cleared by lvl 11-12 bronzes without Jacques, all you need is to do is have bronzes 3-4 levels higher than the golds and its honestly a piece of cake to clear them, bronze rockets do around 500-600k dmg to wall at lvl 11 with ammo refill so yes, you can clear gold garrisons with bronze and no Jacques, although it doesn't change how fking broken he is. You should be able to clear gold garrisons with bronzes when the bronze are 2-4 levels higher than the golds except you should not be able to clear gold garrisons of the same level as your bronzes with Jacques so he still needs a nerf, its just it won't solve the garrison killing problem you have, but just make it easier to survive hits from him when you are same troop level or 1 lower at most.
 
Wyrdii
Knight
Knight
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:23 am

Re: Jacques is the key

Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:26 pm

So I wanted to crunch some numbers for the hell of it~

fight lasted about 30 seconds
Image

Image

(in the 2nd attack he did 600k dmg and gazul being second with 271k due to a half finished scourge)
Image

and this is the more interesting stuff~ the breakdown of what I had to pay for this attack, keep in mind i dealt almost no walldamage plus he was poor~ I just did it to farm some honor.
Image

So thats 20:32h of hospital time and 10h of retraining and 17k gold spent. Like I couldn't even keep attacking people if i wanted to using this strategy because im running out of bronze to field the 26k power requirement from them alone lol.

Also it's not exactly cheap either to do this~ AND KEEP IN MIND IM 2-3 LEVELS ABOVE HIS UNITS it's castle level 36 vs 29 thats about 2 months progress difference and all I could do with bronze is take out half his garrison but thats also mostly because i had spearman vs his horses~ bunch of bronze mechs would have crumbled even faster (oh yeah since you guys are always so eager to jump on this "no loss mech" garbage, 1 set of lvl 11 bronze mechs costs 3.740 gold and you can field 11 with 6 heroes which turns into 41.140g for 1 attack if you get wiped out... ya please go ahead and tell me how this is cheap if you do that multiple times a day TO ATTACK PEOPLE THAT ARE MONTHS BEHIND YOU IN PROGRESS).

If someone attacked me he couldn't even field the power requirement of 40k without elena and golds he has to recall and even then im going to crush him before he could even take out more than 1 or 2 sets of things IF AT ALL, because you know keep in mind that 1 stack of my swordsman has a combined healthpool of 924k plus 25%+ dmg reduction and +50% dmg reduction from projectiles).

So ya... just giving some later game perspective on Jacques+bronze vs gold~, takes quite a few attacks to clear out something and its not free either AND MOST OF ALL IT DOES BARELY HELP IF YOU FIGHT SOMEONE YOUR LEVEL OR ABOVE YOUR LEVEL WHICH NONE OF YOU PEOPLE EVERY COMPLAIN ABOUT. It's always people who are behind screaming bloody murder that Jacques+trash took out some gold defense of some low level guy... well guess what, noone gives a damn and the endgame gold wall barely has any counterplay and is still ridiculously time consuming and annoying to take down.
 
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PrinceCharming
Knight
Knight
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:02 am

Re: Jacques is the key

Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:17 pm

I recently attacked the gold human wall with level X troops, swordsmen, horses, archers.
My Jacques is good. Not best, but still, level 38 and stuff.

I only killed 13 gold swordsmen. Just 1 level above mine.
All my bronze troops were dead ) And heroes too.
 
Leghion
Knight
Knight
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:06 pm

Re: Jacques is the key

Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:40 pm

Noone is talking about huge castle differences, we are talking about equal levels.

As i said before its usual, that bronze is higher tier then gold in your garrison for a very simple reason.
1. mechs/frontlines are unlocked first. Snipers/Archers are at least 1 castle level later. Level 9 bronze mechs vs lvl 8 snipers/archers are same castle level.
2. upgrading 100 bronze units cant be compared with 100 gold units. You are happy if you have enough rare mats to instantly upgrade your gold / silver army, you will do it before you push your garrison

therefore garrison is always slightly behind, which was never an issue. I have never seen anyone attacking with +1 tier bronze (WITHOUT JACQUES) a full golden garrison and destroy it. Its only happening with jacques, and jacques is by far the main dmg source. Thats the point.

By saying you lose nothing i mean you lose no rare mats, who cares about 20k gold elixir? Rakkans are spending that much just to buff some units in a fight. Nothing = no rare mats. Since we are talking about huge golden garrisons, they are probably full of rss, and you wont attack a full golden garrison without good amount of loot. You lose some gold and get alot more gold back + rare mats -> You lose nothing you only win.
You can also patron rush most bronze units, you cant rush healing gold for free.
 
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Zinek
Baron
Baron
Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:15 pm

Re: Jacques is the key

Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:28 pm

Hiems wrote:
Leghion wrote:
Hiems wrote:

I'm done arguing with you, you don't need to quote me if you don't understand what I said before. I will repeat one last time: someone higher level than you will clear you wall no matter if he got Jacques or not, when people talk about Jacques (or you expect it) is between siege of players of equal level, or when the defender is higher level than you, not the opposite. This is when Jacques make a difference. Those are indirect buffs that you mentioned, they will affect all heroes, the direct is ammo capacity only.


You are not arguing you are repeating false informations. Its not about anyone being higher or lower. Its simply the burst concept of jaqcues. He can kill full squads of gold units without losses before it is possible to kill him.
And no, wrong again, there is no other hero in the game that can do the same not even rose, which is another 3 energy hero.
Watch the legend rony video. He has level 13 gold troops and jacques with 0 abilty points is outdmging them. He committed himself he agrees that jacques is op.


I have no idea who's "the legend rony" but if you never saw the impact of a buffed Avalon, Virion or Vega on a lvl 13 gold troop, what can I say... hat's if you want to talk about free heroes only. A buffed Bane at the moment is as much scary as a Jacques, my housemate wipe lower lvls gold walls easily with his Vallari at least once a day since she costs so much mana and I have two liches on my house doing at least 600k damage with Rose per siege with bronzes, not to mention the buffs to bronze spiders (that will kill your weak human golds) and Gan buff to scorpions. I have a lvl 20 Rose myself, never bothered with her and she does 200k damage per siege with 30 magic and some command easily. As I said, if someone is higher level than you, any hero will wipe you wall easily, the talk is about players of same level or the defense side being higher level.



The difference is rose is a sustain damage hero. Jacques is burst. If we start a fight and jacques fires a rocket killing one gold legion of spears. That opens a hole for your mechs to encircle the enemy frontline and even get to the backline. Now four seconds pass. You cast firestorm. You now killed 2-3 legions of gold archers behind the swords/spears/horses. Now once that is done casting you use ammo reload and your rockets and jacques have 60% more ammo back to full. 5 seconds later you use spray and pray. Everything is now dead. 20 seconds have passed. Jacques buffs the health of mechsuits. After the last few months mechsuits have been getting health buffs. The bronze mechs of today are probably stronger than the silver mechsuits of a few months ago.
My player guide for The Art of Conquest. If you have any questions feel free to ask them. You can find me here or on this forum or on the offical AoC discord just @Zinek

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