Wyrdii
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Re: Whats the real reason lilith is so against nerfing jacques

Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:57 am

Bobby wrote:
Please guys ignore princecharming isnt it obvious yet that he just wants his jaq untouched because he spent loads of money on it lol. He doesnt care about balance just wants his jaq untouched because he will probably be nothing without him lol


Don't worry they just announced hero chests and once the jacques chest hits the shop you can watch people go ballistic and throwing money at the screen because with 100$ spent on the special 14k linari bundle you get around 46~ chests and thats enough to easily get your jacques enough exp cards to go to 35 plus enough stat cards to make him pretty strong... good luck for the 2-3 servers that are going to be opened during that chest period! (if its like on the test server the chest will be up for 2-3 days before it rotates to the next hero)
 
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Re: Whats the real reason lilith is so against nerfing jacques

Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:00 pm

Wyrdii wrote:
Bobby wrote:
Please guys ignore princecharming isnt it obvious yet that he just wants his jaq untouched because he spent loads of money on it lol. He doesnt care about balance just wants his jaq untouched because he will probably be nothing without him lol


Don't worry they just announced hero chests and once the jacques chest hits the shop you can watch people go ballistic and throwing money at the screen because with 100$ spent on the special 14k linari bundle you get around 46~ chests and thats enough to easily get your jacques enough exp cards to go to 35 plus enough stat cards to make him pretty strong... good luck for the 2-3 servers that are going to be opened during that chest period! (if its like on the test server the chest will be up for 2-3 days before it rotates to the next hero)


Dear Wyrdii, you don't completely understand their goals...
They DENY the using of this hero itself.
They think that ANY Jacques user is a LOSER :)
So they will not purchase this very hero, even if Lilith will give it for free.
They will say "NO!"
Pride.
 
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Re: Whats the real reason lilith is so against nerfing jacques

Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:09 pm

PrinceCharming wrote:
So I will have to make this as the last post in this thread, thanks for sharing :)


Pride.
 
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Fawksito
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Re: Whats the real reason lilith is so against nerfing jacques

Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:17 pm

If you guys go to the chinese servers you will notice that every single one of them have Jacques, so nope, nerf is not comming at least not soon. Probably merges will be first
BOOM
 
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Re: Whats the real reason lilith is so against nerfing jacques

Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:17 pm

NOticed that bronze sieging w Jacq is no longer possible since Jacq is targeted and killed first no matter what bronze meatshield you use
 
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Re: Whats the real reason lilith is so against nerfing jacques

Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:10 am

Danur wrote:
NOticed that bronze sieging w Jacq is no longer possible since Jacq is targeted and killed first no matter what bronze meatshield you use


He kills half of your golden army before he dies
 
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Re: Whats the real reason lilith is so against nerfing jacques

Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:13 am

Saikoro wrote:
dumbosai wrote:
Some bought another heroes right? And some spent for patron. This game is totally ruined by jacques. Those without jacques cant cope up. Unsatisfied customers deserves a refund. Its like purchasing bronze ring for 10usd and the gold ring has the same price.


if it's the same price... why would I purchase the bronze ring then...


That's the point. Why would they sale a bronze ring if there's gold at the same price. It makes others worthless.
 
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Re: Whats the real reason lilith is so against nerfing jacques

Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:16 am

Bombplayer2Jr wrote:
You are so good at debating and speaks so much truth. Prince and Iphit just keeps looping the argument, always regurgitating back to false premise without even addressing your point. They even constructed terrible false equivalence with Vega. Jacques' unbalanced nature is indefensible, and you articulate our frustrations towards him very well. IMO you should start another thread and systematically list out all the problems of Jacques and address any counter people have against nerfing Jacques.


I don't know if it was sarcasm but if it wasn't, thank you. Although I'm not going to make another thread to list out problems considering there's already so many threads discussing Jacques, it's not even funny any more. If the amount of threads didn't work on getting it into their attention, a new thread about it won't do so.

PrinceCharming wrote:
The most common reason of people complaining about Jacques is:
They don't have Jacques themselves.


Question mark? Why are there people who do have him side with the people who don't have him and complain about how strong he is then?
If the source of the problem was truly the fact that "people don't have Jacques himself, so they complain", then this wouldn't be a problem because the fix to that problem is easy; buying him. That doesn't change the fact that he's broken nor will it fix the source of the problem. Henceforth, still have the problem. You're not debating for a fix, you're just randomly discussing with little to no true statements.

PrinceCharming wrote:
You have to look at yourself and see how egoistic it looks.
1. You want to remove a hero while not even having him yourself. While not spent time, money (real cash), resources on it.
2. You want to remove a hero simply because you are bored.


1.) If this is directed to me; which possibly wasn't, but if it was, then I'd have to make you eat your words there because in no way was my goal or intention of "removing a hero", whether I have him or not. Again, getting him is no feat, abusing him is no feat and telling people off that they're egoistic because they don't like him as he is, is quite the selfish statement of yourself. With the latter backed up by the fact that you gave an argument about people liking him the way he is. These words right now can back fire at you for the same reason you gave it as an argument. As for the time spend, money and resources; this again, has no place to stand on for the same fact that everyone who doesn't have Jacques, has an other hero they have used the exact (if not, more or less) time, money and/or resources on it.
2.) I've yet to find anyone who does have him say he should be removed. Only a few comments have been made about the removal of Jacques and you're (ab)using that comment to stand on a place to accuse the words of many who may or may not even have any thing to do with it. Next to that, if these people who were accused of saying so, were truly thinking of a removal of Jacques, they'd have a better option to quit rather than removing a hero because let's be frank; removing Jacques won't help your satisfaction of boredom on a game.

The boredom however, would in a sense be fixed if there was a certain balance found in the main problem we're currently facing.



PrinceCharming wrote:
Of course, every person is the center in the Universe, and everything goes only AROUND YOU.
And nobody gives any damn about other people's time, money, and their goals.


Again, the same can be said about you. Can we please stay argumentative about the whole topic instead of accusing others of something while the accusation also applies to you? You surely realize by now that your comment about nobody giving a damn about other people's sincerely applies to you the most, considering you DON'T care what others think of Jacques as long they don't nerf him to your wishes?

PrinceCharming wrote:
Shall I open your eyes and say that there are plenty of:
1. People who like Jacques the way it is;
2. People who are not bored, they have fun and have plenty of things and plans to do in this game.


1.) And again, if your argument is "there are plenty of people who like Jacques the way it is" is all you can come up with, without elaborating the fact why he's not
broken to actually contribute to your statements, I believe you just shouldn't comment at all any more because frankly, you're not standing strong on that part.
2.) Yes, you're absolutely correct, tons of people who aren't bored, tons of people are having fun and definitely have plenty of things and plans to do in this game, but a broken feature definitely ruins all that fun, plans and things to do. But not for you, because you have that part of broken feature in possession.

PrinceCharming wrote:
Of course, you don't have to pay attention on these people, because they are just dust under your legs.
Their desires, thoughts, opinions mean completely nothing for you, because you always have your own opinion, which is the only truth in this or another World.

I am sorry I forgot about all the above. And I am sorry if I gave someone a feeling that he is not this Center of the World, it was a huge mistake of mine.Of course, you don't have to pay attention on these people, because they are just dust under your legs.
Their desires, thoughts, opinions mean completely nothing for you, because you always have your own opinion, which is the only truth in this or another World.

I am sorry I forgot about all the above. And I am sorry if I gave someone a feeling that he is not this Center of the World, it was a huge mistake of mine.


I had respect for you and your opinions, although I disagreed with most; however with this comment I cannot hold that same respect towards you as you're looking down on anyone who aren't agreeing with your view. You may dislike another, you may disagree with another, however you're steeping extremely low by saying that you won't have to pay attention to people who you see as dust under your legs. You are not a being above another, you're human just like any other. Please get off your high horse and don't insult an other just because they disagree with your view, please and thank you.

Maebius wrote:
Also, simultaneous bronze suicide attacks on strongholds that lure the good troops out while the rest of the team cheezes the lesser troops need to go. Only one attack at a time on a garrison, just like vs players.


This argument would only hold some truth in it if simultaneous bronze suicide attacks is forever the cause of it; however fix the broken aspect of Jacques and replace it with actual sieging with gold/silvers to take down Garrisons and you don't have to go to such a measure. By fixing one problem, another don't need touching, anything more and it's over-kill. Plus, if something gets limited to one attack at a time, sieging a City would be close to impossible when players defend their cities, so not the ideal fix to the current problem.

Maebius wrote:
At lvl 10troops i am beginning to see that jacques' effectiveness is starting to diminish.


I don't know where you play or what world your Art of Conquest is from, but from my world, there were T11/12 bronzes used with Jacques against T11/10 silver/golds + Seraph AND Jacques, to be fair and to mention that the latter Jacques is a whole lot weaker than the other Jacques and the one who fought with the Seraph did win, but only half an archer and 1% hp on Seraph left. That's what's making the difference and Jacques vs Jacques fights are nonetheless not about skill any more, but rather who has the bigger J. Such fun, much skill! But in all seriousness though, that example is what everyone has been trying to talk about; but Jacques is still incredibly (brokenly) strong even at higher levels so I fail to see what gets better at higher level.

PrinceCharming wrote:
After bronze Jacques I get 9 hours of healing that goes only for bronze.


9 hours of healing time because you decided to siege something with bronze.
48+ hours of healing time because someone decided to fight your Jacques with their army because they can't fight you with bronze.

I do think your 9 hours of healing time is absurd. Definitely.

Fawksito wrote:
Nerf him and buy the turtle for PrinceCharming already!


Will you please buy me a turtle? I love turtles.

dumbosai wrote:
This is an urgent problem but it seems like they are ignoring it. How about we all demand a refund?


Problem or not, in a fair sense of way, I don't think demanding refunds over this is honest. As a player, you used the patron, similarly, you used heroes. On the other end of the scale, Jacques users can't demand refunds either because they've used it. Saying it got nerfed and asking for refunds is just as blasphemy, perhaps a compensation would suffice as that would be fair (like Rose nerf or any other hero nerf). But then again, they do reset it, let you choose another hero for it, etc as compensation and in that aspect, I have to say they are fair in that way. They nerf; they compensate. Players who ask for refunds because of such, aren't fair in any way. You've chosen to spend money on the game, but as soon you have no use for it any more, you ask for it back. In that sense, you didn't pay, you lend them money in a sense. In such case, it'd be categorized as theft as they are a company who provide services (entertainment) in return of money.

dumbosai wrote:
Its like purchasing bronze ring for 10usd and the gold ring has the same price.

Saikoro wrote:
if it's the same price... why would I purchase the bronze ring then...


That's what he meant, why would you buy other heroes (bronze ring) while Jacques (gold ring) is exactly the same price.

Damissak wrote:
While not the only reason, some players are leaving due to Jacques. I can not recommend friends to start until this is addressed.


Exactly what I've been trying to say in one of my earlier posts. If you're a company and you'd want to milk out as much profit out of your sales, you'd have to keep your customer basis as high as possible, not the few "V.I.P" who spend for you. I get that the rookie thought of listening to your bigger customers is important(and it is!), however the bits of the smaller customers count just as much if you're a(n) (online) big company, since bigger companies tend to have an overall bigger customer basis. Don't forget that the mouth-to-mouth advertisement/reviews is far more important in the long run than milking your current V.I.P customers. And if you can get 1000 extra players because people like your game, that can only mean one thing; extra profits.

PrinceCharming wrote:
Please don't recommend your friends to play unless you know for sure that they are not whiners.


Well, aren't you the positive vibe over here, dear. If someone would like to recommend, why is your opinion so important whether he does or not?
Maybe because everyone who doesn't agree with you are "whiners"? Or because your money to Lilith is the only money they should make because you are the most important person on the internet? Or is it because you are of Royal heritage that we should obey your command? Tons of options, yet so hard to decide.

PrinceCharming wrote:
Oh come on, I hear these complaints all over.
Game world chat, Facebook, forum.
And all this whining is directed to the hero which I and lots of my guild mates spent hell of a lot.


Because you and the lads in your guild are indeed the pinnacle of Lilith's customers, they should obey your commands whenever and wherever you go.

PrinceCharming wrote:
What should I do, shut up and calmly watch the invasion of Jacques-haters? :D


That was your intend a while ago and so was mine, but I decided to retract my statement because of some of the selfish, yet funny comments here, that or some people I wanted answered because it was directed to me.

Not like your comments would stop any comments about the "invasion of Jacques-haters" anyway, because they're human beings and have rights.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and so do you, so don't think I'm trying to stop you from doing so. However, in that same sense, you shouldn't tell others not to do something either. Everyone has the same rights.

PrinceCharming wrote:
All I see is that (as I said before) crying players invaded Facebook and Forums, while people who are OK with it, and like the game it is, or just don't care (or they don't use Facebook and don't know about the game forums, or they don't like to use it, or they don't like to express their opinions, or they know that their opinions are pointless because business game will do whatever developers want from it to have the highest income).
Hahahahahah


Again, anyone who's entitled to their opinion, but not entitled to yours, are whining and crying. While your other excessive redundant reasons; who obviously won't write on the forums or Facebook because like you said; have nothing or don't want to complain about anything. If everything is fine for you, you obviously won't let people know. If you don't have a flu, you won't go to the doctors, simple as that.

PrinceCharming wrote:
I went through a lot of mobile games in the past (strategy games) and in some of them got to the World Number 1, which makes me feel like I am good at the strategy and stuff.


Ego stroke. Completely irrelevant.

PrinceCharming wrote:
But I never cried about anything.
Overpowered weapon - FINE! I can get the same eventually, or not get and just stay the average player with no intention to become a top player.


Sure, you can, but absolutely and completely out of context why we're having this discussion.

PrinceCharming wrote:
Super powerful hero?
Well, why not?
Does the game has to be linear and boring?


Uhhh, do you know the context of linear and boring? I can spell it out for you and it should be along the lines of:

B-R-O-K-E-N O-N-E-S-I-D-E-D S-U-P-E-R U-N-I-T W-I-T-H A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E-L-Y N-O-D-I-V-E-R-S-I-T-Y.
Let's be honest here, what exactly do you do as Jacques? You set him into your battlefield, you press two or three buttons? You don't have to aim, you don't have to place a skill, you don't even need a strategically spot to place units, all you need is fodder and him behind. Every single time, the same.

Linear and boring. Yup, you took the words out of my mouth there, hun.

PrinceCharming wrote:
Almost no one here provided me with a good and constructive answer on why this hero should be nerfed


Well, whatever I've said before, definitely wasn't constructive, I'll admit to that then.

PrinceCharming wrote:
And the reason "he is too powerful" is ridiculous.


You're correct. The dozens of other arguments aren't valid either. >.<

PrinceCharming wrote:
P.S. People still bother training silver, gold units because it directly increases their power, and looooots of Jacques users fight using them especially to hit level 12 garrison.


I have yet to see anyone use golds to fight level 12 Garrisons, maybe because none in our server are yet to reach that level? So how can you, who have yet to see any level 12 garrisons, comment about a lot of Jacques users to hit a non-existing garrison, as of yet?

I get that it's a game and all, and making/buying something to never use isn't uncommon in real life either, but to not use something where the game is 50% all about or to make them completely irrelevant due to one singularly hero is something that I still cannot comprehend very well.

But I'll do it for the balance, the Jacques balance, so point taken.

PrinceCharming wrote:
You are totally wrong in all statements, and need to be more convincing next time.


Okay, but if that wasn't convincing, well, I guess we can't really be more convincing next time. Stay tuned folks~


Wyrdii wrote:
Hes a bit like Avril since shes such a beast in early game with blizzard doing ridiculous amounts of work but in late game even with really strong gear she doesn't reeeeaaaaally deal insane amounts of damage you'd expect from someone who can use a 2x 3 mana spell.

That would be true if Avril was solely the only one who can deal such ridiculous amounts of damage, but she isn't. Anything early game is strong, whether it's Avalon's Arrow skill or Rufio's Jump skill. However the reason why it's not sufficient enough for it to beclassified as broken is that it's a limited skill per fight and once it's over, she/he is made useless. She can't finish the whole battleground by using all her skills. Jacques activating a skill makes him strong enough to end the battle by himself, period.

Wyrdii wrote:
My gazul at 110~ magic with a 5/4 scourge deals around 500-750k. So why exactly is it ok for jacques to be able to melt things with firestorm more easily when gazuls scourge got nerfed so hard. Firestorm hits faster/harder and its harder to stop aswell. It took them like 2 weeks after launch to nerf gazuls scourge by something like -50% because all you had to do was scourge any side of the battle field and they just destroyed it. Now jacques does the same thing only more of it and better and they won't rebalance his early game retardation.


Exactly, but once again, it's really not just the early game that's being affected. There were downsides of every skill, but Jacques doesn't. Scourge deals a lot of damage, but it was channeling (using any other skill would break the casting) and it came from behind your army as it's a slow spell as well. Avril's blizzard slows, but freezing took time, etc. There was always something that would be a downside to their skills. Jacques doesn't, if he uses Spray and Pray, any stuns on him would be negated and he would just keep his onslaught (tested and confirmed) so it's not a channeling skill, rockets have an area aim just like Avrils but decimates anyone, instantly, combined with his gattling gun, what does he lack really?

Wyrdii wrote:
But eh~ real reason why everyones so salty about him is probably that whales get rewarded to hell and back by spending lots of cash on him.


I have absolutely no problem with whales getting rewarded for their support to the game, they can get an edge on the game and they already do if you don't even count Jacques. Jacques is a Pinnacle of this game and not gives you an edge, but absolute dominance. You can get any other hero and spend money to support your self or the game and still get an edge over the others. So by no means, do you need Jacques that powerful.

Danur wrote:
NOticed that bronze sieging w Jacq is no longer possible since Jacq is targeted and killed first no matter what bronze meatshield you use


Did they ninja a patch regarding Jacques? Or is this something new that none of us have yet to see? Unless your Jacques is on the front lines, where he doesn't belong, which would clarify why bronze meatshields don't work, I don't think this is valid.
 
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PrinceCharming
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Re: Whats the real reason lilith is so against nerfing jacques

Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:40 am

You have a diffferent sense of humor and don't get my sarcasm :) especially about dust under legs, but I won't bother explaining.
And again you turn everything in the state where you are the only one who is right here, nice job :)

I still don't see any reason to even nerf him a little. Bronze attacks, easy siege, high damage, no strategy, fast healing, endless attacks - this is all about this very hero, and all coming from whiners, who don't know anything about using it themselves, and this is how people learnt to use it in the most effective way.
Just get over it.
However I feel how people will be gloating if he really gets some serious debuff. They will be happy for us (who have Jascues) that we are so unhappy for being robbed. Everyone will be putting fingers and say "hey, you losers, you got what you deserved".

I know exactly how the human nature works.
Everyone here is egoistic enough and goes after his own benefit.
None of the comments above serves common good.
That's all about how everyone wants to see and play it by himself.

The difference between is only one.
You want to change something, and someone doesn't.
Eventually it's the devs' decision.
But they have to see both sides of the situation, if we have a small court here.

You are on 1 side, I am on another, we don't have to agree or disagree with each other. But everyone will decide for himself either to support haters or those who is fine.
I would recommend to go for a 2nd option, staying positive is always better for your health in general.
 
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Re: Whats the real reason lilith is so against nerfing jacques

Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:17 am

Prince is a joke honestly
Hes on same server as me. Im escorting my cart past lanchester(his houses city previously before he migrated to yellow)
He stood there and watched as 7-8 yellows were attacking, didnt even attempt to fight a single one. What did these people have in common? All of them have jacques. Including prince. If jacques isnt such a big problem surely youll fight them on your own turf to scare them away from hitting your house right? After all you claimed “jacques is the counter to jacques”
Plus you also said u get 8 hours heal time in a bronze fight lol? What is your hospital level 1 or something..? I have a lvl 10 hospital and my bronze can heal within an hour or two after a bronze fight
Plus youre dwarf, mechs die, they can be remade for gold instead. With subscription and patron you get 20 free rush on troops, can make bronze mechs instantly.
So lets say i had a lvl 40 jacques with 130 might, i go and attack some cities till im challenged, now i can spend 2h heal time to take potentially 20-30 hours heal time for my opponent depending on A if he firestorms my jacques faster, B. Uses golds and silvers
And note: your own bronze hardly do anything to his silvers/golds, jacques is the only damage dealer dealing 1million or more damage
If you cant admit thats broken, you are in denial. Plus you can disband and remake bronze instantly if lazy to heal them up. With 1700 bronze cap its quite easy to bronze jacques half the server.

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