Behindtheed
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Critical: Lilith ignoring broken PvP infrastructure

Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:23 am

Another thread about disparity between gameplay and server calculations. A recent loss has motivated me to try and emphasize the importance of this again.

an old fairly minor example I managed to record for people who haven't seen it before (in my benefit this time): https://youtu.be/8k8B2jis_1Q?t=86 See 4 gold mechs die, and come back to life in results. different amount of spiders killed. Basically a totally different fight happened that I never saw.

What seems to happen in some duels or garrison attacks (mostly duels), is too much information is simulated on the client side, and the server does not communicate relevant information to the two participants, so they each experience totally different fights than the servers end result.
Today this resulted in showing me a brilliant victory, followed by "Victory! +1100 honor", then giving me a duel flag and showing results as a total unequivocal loss, where everything in replay happened different than I experienced.

Most of the time, this doesn't happen. And most of the time, the changes are minor. But as the game becomes more and more developed in strategy, and more hero abilities with interesting utilities are introduced, this will become more and more likely to lead to a devastating gameplay experience for one, or both players.

An example of how seriously this can effect outcome, from today:

-Fire-off after enemy cleo ult expires on rocketeers
(Server: fire-off DURING cleo ult so nothing happens)

-Reload on a safe grimms during fire-off to extend duration
(Server: grimms is dead, I do nothing)

-Use firestorm on jacques to kill enemy heroes and archers, then use spray and pray
(Server: jacques has no ammo, I do nothing instead)

-Virion is safe on the right side, not being targeted so I use resurrect right before last enemy dies
(Server: virion is in the middle, being attacked constantly and dies without casting resurrect after shield expires)

A clean victory.
(Server: utter defeat)


Lilith makes an incredible amount of money, we all know this, and to ignore the fundemental misfunction of such an important aspect of the game for big spenders will cost them a lot of money in the long run. I know there is not an easy fix for this, but I hope with enough protest they will invest in repairing this horrendous deficiency of their product.
 
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Destination
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Re: Critical: Lilith ignoring broken PvP infrastructure

Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:29 am

I already reported this bug, but i will report it again.
 
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Chillblaze
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Re: Critical: Lilith ignoring broken PvP infrastructure

Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:03 pm

It must be the wi-fi problem of your ethernet connection bro :geek:

A clean victory. (Server: utter defeat) :lol:
"They don’t sit on benches while eating but squat like Europeans do when they relieve themselves out in the leafy woods." :lol: Albert Einstein
 
Behindtheed
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Re: Critical: Lilith ignoring broken PvP infrastructure

Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:16 pm

Chillblaze wrote:
It must be the wi-fi problem of your ethernet connection bro :geek:

A clean victory. (Server: utter defeat) :lol:


I assume you are kidding. It still records every ability I use, it just doesn't use it because my clients simulation is different so the hero was dead (or out of ammo) in the server version in my examples. For instance I can watch my yip use a superfluous cyclone I chose around the same time in the fight, because Virion was in a totally different location on my screen - just in the server version virion is standing beside yip about to die as he casts it instead- lol.

Obviously I don't play on wifi. I've broken dozens of lvl 13 garrisons reliably and done plenty of duels. I play other games, sometimes seriously and do not have allow for internet problems. This is a widely reported issue. The buffering shown in the first video was due to the new city capture mechanic being introduced - probably patch propagation or something. Was happening all the time to everyone.
 
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Chillblaze
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Re: Critical: Lilith ignoring broken PvP infrastructure

Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:27 pm

Yes sorry i didn't clarify. I suffer the same issue and complained in another thread. Support said its due to connection problems but you are obviously using wired connection where package loss is minimum. This is also not device problem as obviously pc should have enough resources. Then it must be problem with their servers (i guess amazon instances).
But we players suffer and I will not be surprised if battles are rigged in favor of certain players... Long time ago there was comment on play store that this game is a scam which favors certain "players" and trick others to pay money... now I belive its true.

CHALLENGE your friends to thrilling real-time duels
Lie
CHOOSE from five mighty races to raise your army
Lie
SIX embittered kingdoms strive to survive
Lie
Before support was saying that its not p2w but depends on teamwork. Now they claim there are social ladders and anyone can become king.
More lies
Research sometimes didn't apply to defenders but they claim is just visual.
Lie
Defensive ranged units target stronger threat first.
Lie
Your battle differs from whats played on server side but they blame device connection problems.
Too many lies....
"They don’t sit on benches while eating but squat like Europeans do when they relieve themselves out in the leafy woods." :lol: Albert Einstein
 
Behindtheed
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Re: Critical: Lilith ignoring broken PvP infrastructure

Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:14 pm

Chillblaze wrote:
Yes sorry i didn't clarify. I suffer the same issue and complained in another thread. Support said its due to connection problems but you are obviously using wired connection where package loss is minimum. This is also not device problem as obviously pc should have enough resources. Then it must be problem with their servers (i guess amazon instances).
But we players suffer and I will not be surprised if battles are rigged in favor of certain players... Long time ago there was comment on play store that this game is a scam which favors certain "players" and trick others to pay money... now I belive its true.

CHALLENGE your friends to thrilling real-time duels
Lie
CHOOSE from five mighty races to raise your army
Lie
SIX embittered kingdoms strive to survive
Lie
Before support was saying that its not p2w but depends on teamwork. Now they claim there are social ladders and anyone can become king.
More lies
Research sometimes didn't apply to defenders but they claim is just visual.
Lie
Defensive ranged units target stronger threat first.
Lie
Your battle differs from whats played on server side but they blame device connection problems.
Too many lies....


Yup, heard all of those before. Even if it is somehow a connectivity problem, it shouldn't make up totally different simulations in battles..it should display lag like any other game would, so you have some idea of what is taking place, or at least know the limits of the information you have.
 
Behindtheed
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Re: Critical: Lilith ignoring broken PvP infrastructure

Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:02 am

Interestingly you also can sometimes see replays act out differently than when they originally took place, upon re-watching. This basically suggests that the data sent from the server to the client is insufficient for formulating identical outcomes in rare circumstances. Seems like some pretty deep rooted issues here.
 
shaunus
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Re: Critical: Lilith ignoring broken PvP infrastructure

Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:19 am

I had one duel, where I was winning, then 25 seconds left in the duel it bounced to me losing completely with a fraction of the kills.
Might have had something to do with the rakan xbows knocking my jacquez back (I killed his in my game, but the server disagreed).

Before support was saying that its not p2w but depends on teamwork. Now they claim there are social ladders and anyone can become king.
More lies


This is a truth.
You can overcome even the big spenders with a large enough committed group. You might not take out the whale directly, but you can circumvent them and take out everything else.

Of course once you hit 40, dealing with them is easy irrespective of what their garrison contains.
 
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Maebius
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Re: Critical: Lilith ignoring broken PvP infrastructure

Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:42 am

I almost never have this issue on siege battles but on pvp it's almost on every other fight.
Yesterday I did some random bronze duel and on my client the fight was stalemateing so was going to time out with me having 5 heroes alive (and a couple of mechs) and the opponent about the same.... the fight ended abruptly with 17 seconds left to timeout and the report said I had one hero alive and everything else dead... he had 4 heroes alive and two half groups left.
The replay was very very different from the fight in my client...
 
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Chillblaze
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Re: Critical: Lilith ignoring broken PvP infrastructure

Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:10 am

shaunus wrote:
xbows knocking my jacquez back

You lost me right there bro ;)
Behindtheed wrote:
it shouldn't make up totally different simulations in battles..

It does because it is a scam.
"They don’t sit on benches while eating but squat like Europeans do when they relieve themselves out in the leafy woods." :lol: Albert Einstein

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