User avatar
MARIVS
Squire
Squire
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:48 pm
Location: Ukraine

[Guide] Human army PvP tactics

Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:46 pm

Hello everyone.

Today I am going to tell you about the PvP tactics of the human army. The first thing I want you to remember – there is no universal formation. Each of them has its own advantages and disanvantages. The second thing I want you to learn – there is no the best unit. In this game every unit has a counter unit. Gentlemen, how do you think, what unit is the main feature of the human army? "Lancers!!!",– you may say. Nope. The main feature are spearman. Why is this so? Only spearman have an ability that counters big units, usually considered as "best".

And now let's get to the point. The idea of human formation is to endure anything enemy may do in order to brake our lines. So, talking about counteracting dwarves and liches armies. Our formation consists of four lines: First – spearmen, second – lancers, third – archers and priests, fourth – heroes. (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7hI2 ... 0dBOEpSWDQ) When fighting humans it will look like: first – spearmen, second – archers and priests, third – archers and heroes. (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7hI2 ... WVMdVV5Yk0) By the way, do not deploy the heroes closely to each other, or they might be aimed by enemy heroes' abilities.

When you hire golden troops, spearmen must be hired first. You may say: "Eh, Marivs is wrong. I'd better hire golden lancers/archers." The problem lies in the troop reinforcement. You can reinforce lancers with Elena, you can reinforce archers with Avalon, you can reinforce spearmen with... Oops. The next heroes are vital for this tactics: Avalon, Vega and Helena. If you don't have Helena, use Virion instead. Also I may advise using some melee hero in the lancers line, like Rufio or Bane. Selection of other heroes is up to you.

Let's talk about heroes' skills.
Avalon: arrow volley – useful skill, but not vital; summon archers, archers mastery – vital skills, natural aura – having first stage is mandatory.
Vega: heal, mana barrier, favour of the sun god – vital skills, boosted healing – less important, but useful.
Helena: strategic retreat – you may upgrade not more than three levels, but it is not mandatory. Call of the cavalry, cavalry specialist, magic resistance – vital skills. By the way, magic resistance is extremely useful when fighting the liches armies.
Virion: summon swordsmen, swordsmen mastery – vital skills. You may put one point in all other skills.

Now, how to lead your army to the victory? Fighting against dwarves or liches, spearmen will throw spears and stun the enemies, lancers will outrun spearmen and hit the enemy stunning him again. Lancers will clash the enemy. And here comes the fear factor. Enemy heroes will use their attacking skills on the lancers. Let lancers act as a cannon fodder. After enemy will spent the attacking skills, you may use strategic retreat on lancers, if you have Helena. Do NOT use Vega's healing abilities on lancers.
Our principal concern is to save the spearmen' line and our main heroes. So reserve the healing abilities for them. However, you may try to predict enemy's action and use mana barrier before he will hit your lancers. Be especially attentive when you fight against humans because spearmen will confront all might of the enemy's first strike. After the spearmen line will clash with the enemy, you can spawn lancers/swordsman behind the enemy troops crying: "Surprise mother****er!!!" Also, do not forget about the possibility to strengthen your firepower by spawning archers.

I hope you enjoy reading my guide. I would greatly appreciate your comments.
Salute benevolo lectorem.
 
User avatar
Aluminara
Baron
Baron
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:48 am

Re: [Guide] Human army PvP tactics

Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:57 am

Don't you feel that needing 4 units to research is a bit too much? What about the loss of morale on the Spearman making a lot of them flee? I agree that the spear throw plus Cavalry charge could be a deadly combo, but just having 1 or 2 low-level spearmen for that buff might do it.
Cirilla - Realm 61 - Athaly - Order of Chaos
Aluminara - Realm 39 - Neferak - Free Lancing
 
User avatar
MARIVS
Squire
Squire
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:48 pm
Location: Ukraine

Re: [Guide] Human army PvP tactics

Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:37 am

Aluminara wrote:
Don't you feel that needing 4 units to research is a bit too much? What about the loss of morale on the Spearman making a lot of them flee? I agree that the spear throw plus Cavalry charge could be a deadly combo, but just having 1 or 2 low-level spearmen for that buff might do it.


Hi, thanks for your comment. As I said earlier every unit has a counter unit. So you need versatile army in order to be able to respond to any challenge. Talking about spearmen, their stun is not the main reason I've made an emphasis on them. The main task of spearmen is hold the line and counter big units. And the ability of golden spearmen perfectly fits for this purpose. You've mentioned the loss of morale. It is your duty as a commander not to permit happening such a thing. That is why I'warned about spending healing skills.
Salute benevolo lectorem.
 
User avatar
Aluminara
Baron
Baron
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:48 am

Re: [Guide] Human army PvP tactics

Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:14 am

MARIVS wrote:
So you need versatile army in order to be able to respond to any challenge. Talking about spearmen, their stun is not the main reason I've made an emphasis on them. The main task of spearmen is hold the line and counter big units.


I understand they do increased damage to larger targets, though the larger targets also do increased damage to them. Isn't your front-line meant to survive instead of putting out some damage before spiders wipe them out and demoralize them? Also, you are right that no one can reinforce Spearman, no one can buff them either, so aren't you missing out on the + damage % and + x2 health % on your gold front line units?

Is your army based on theory crafting or hands on experience? I would love to see an even match of your army to another that has specialized more into tech with fewer units and uses Cavalry (as spears counter them) to see if you still win. Then against the cookie cutter Lich. As this subject interests me greatly, thank you.
Cirilla - Realm 61 - Athaly - Order of Chaos
Aluminara - Realm 39 - Neferak - Free Lancing
 
User avatar
MARIVS
Squire
Squire
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:48 pm
Location: Ukraine

Re: [Guide] Human army PvP tactics

Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:14 am

Aluminara wrote:
MARIVS wrote:
So you need versatile army in order to be able to respond to any challenge. Talking about spearmen, their stun is not the main reason I've made an emphasis on them. The main task of spearmen is hold the line and counter big units.


I understand they do increased damage to larger targets, though the larger targets also do increased damage to them. Isn't your front-line meant to survive instead of putting out some damage before spiders wipe them out and demoralize them? Also, you are right that no one can reinforce Spearman, no one can buff them either, so aren't you missing out on the + damage % and + x2 health % on your gold front line units?

Is your army based on theory crafting or hands on experience? I would love to see an even match of your army to another that has specialized more into tech with fewer units and uses Cavalry (as spears counter them) to see if you still win. Then against the cookie cutter Lich. As this subject interests me greatly, thank you.


What do you mean on "large units do increased damage to spearmen"? I haven't seen such an ability.) Talking about spiders, yes, they worried me a lot. I usually counter them by casting mana barrier before they hit my spearmen and spawn troops in the rear. Of course in this situation you also need a bit of luck.) If I've not said clearly I say it again I think that the purpose of spearmen is holding the line and countering, not ordinary damage dealing. Gold spearmen have unique ability "impenetrable defence" so they can survive longer. Together with two other abilities they are strong defensive unit. In this way I try to make up the deficiency of missing health bonus.
Salute benevolo lectorem.
 
User avatar
Aluminara
Baron
Baron
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:48 am

Re: [Guide] Human army PvP tactics

Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:21 am

MARIVS wrote:
What do you mean on "large units do increased damage to spearmen"? I haven't seen such an ability.)


Large units do increased damage to small units. Spearman are small units.

MARIVS wrote:
Talking about spiders, yes, they worried me a lot. I usually counter them by casting mana barrier before they hit my spearmen and spawn troops in the rear. Of course in this situation you also need a bit of luck.)

Mana barrier only stops arrows and spell damage. I know that it does not stop spider spit, but the summon archers in the backline is the best counter to spiders.

MARIVS wrote:
If I've not said clearly I say it again I think that the purpose of spearmen is holding the line and countering, not ordinary damage dealing. Gold spearmen have unique ability "impenetrable defence" so they can survive longer. Together with two other abilities they are strong defensive unit. In this way I try to make up the deficiency of missing health bonus.


Fair enough.
Cirilla - Realm 61 - Athaly - Order of Chaos
Aluminara - Realm 39 - Neferak - Free Lancing
 
User avatar
Zinek
Baron
Baron
Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:15 pm

Re: [Guide] Human army PvP tactics

Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:21 am

I would disagree. Priests are actually the cornerstone and should be research first this is also nice because you can have two legions of gold priests for 32 supply which you will have even as free to play (no patron bonus) by the time you get castle 13 and research gold priest.

They have mass heal which can be used to top off the frontline after vega ult wears off and you already summoned archers or swordmen. This is how you maintain an army with few losses and allows you to fight weaker enemies without using a vega 5 mana spell to keep your army alive and in mint condition. If you are like me and usually have to fight people.back to badk (usually 5 or more duels in a row) this is critical to survival. After priests I would go with gold swordsmen as my third gold legion and use virion with crusader resurrection again for maintaining survial.

My standard default setup for all situations (I change setup if I know who I'm fighting and what they have like jacques or mass cavalry etc) is this.

My front line is 2 spears 1 swordsmen. The spears are on the flanks and the swords cover the middle they have warriors pride so the midddle will hold long enough for the flanks to encircle the enemy.

Behind the spears are horses followed by archers and horses again. The horses are spread apart so they get more stun time on the front line and the first horse is placed behind the spears so the spears can block enemy spear toss and spear toss the enemy. And the charge kills anything almost due to the 30% damage bonus from spear toss. And with the extra range trait archers will hit the enemy line from where they stand.

Behind the swords I put heroes followed by archers with priests on the flanks of the archers follow e by more heroes in the back.

This setup is 13 legions with room for extra heroes if you buy them. Bane would be a great purchase for this setup as his one downside doesn't affect this setup. If you don't have Avalon buying bane will have you still reach the 13 legions count. It's great. If you don't get bane I would go with Elena as my second choice as with her you buff your whole army except spears.

This is also why spears suck over all they are not stat buffed by a hero like archers swords priests and cavalry are. This may not affect the first 20 castle levels much but when you get to the the end game 32% more health and damage is huge. Spears are almost useless once you get past the early game horse rush noobs.

I hope this helped. If you have any more questions please feel free to message me or continue the discussion here I'm happy to share my thoughts and theory craft.
My player guide for The Art of Conquest. If you have any questions feel free to ask them. You can find me here or on this forum or on the offical AoC discord just @Zinek

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=13293
 
User avatar
MARIVS
Squire
Squire
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:48 pm
Location: Ukraine

Re: [Guide] Human army PvP tactics

Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:49 am

Zinek wrote:
I would disagree. Priests are actually the cornerstone and should be research first this is also nice because you can have two legions of gold priests for 32 supply which you will have even as free to play (no patron bonus) by the time you get castle 13 and research gold priest.

They have mass heal which can be used to top off the frontline after vega ult wears off and you already summoned archers or swordmen. This is how you maintain an army with few losses and allows you to fight weaker enemies without using a vega 5 mana spell to keep your army alive and in mint condition. If you are like me and usually have to fight people.back to badk (usually 5 or more duels in a row) this is critical to survival. After priests I would go with gold swordsmen as my third gold legion and use virion with crusader resurrection again for maintaining survial.

My standard default setup for all situations (I change setup if I know who I'm fighting and what they have like jacques or mass cavalry etc) is this.

My front line is 2 spears 1 swordsmen. The spears are on the flanks and the swords cover the middle they have warriors pride so the midddle will hold long enough for the flanks to encircle the enemy.

Behind the spears are horses followed by archers and horses again. The horses are spread apart so they get more stun time on the front line and the first horse is placed behind the spears so the spears can block enemy spear toss and spear toss the enemy. And the charge kills anything almost due to the 30% damage bonus from spear toss. And with the extra range trait archers will hit the enemy line from where they stand.

Behind the swords I put heroes followed by archers with priests on the flanks of the archers follow e by more heroes in the back.

This setup is 13 legions with room for extra heroes if you buy them. Bane would be a great purchase for this setup as his one downside doesn't affect this setup. If you don't have Avalon buying bane will have you still reach the 13 legions count. It's great. If you don't get bane I would go with Elena as my second choice as with her you buff your whole army except spears.

This is also why spears suck over all they are not stat buffed by a hero like archers swords priests and cavalry are. This may not affect the first 20 castle levels much but when you get to the the end game 32% more health and damage is huge. Spears are almost useless once you get past the early game horse rush noobs.

I hope this helped. If you have any more questions please feel free to message me or continue the discussion here I'm happy to share my thoughts and theory craft.

Hi. I appreciate your help. I will agree that golden priests must be a cornerstone of human army. But upgrading swordsmen and using only one legion of them is doubtful idea for me. Talking about spearmen I hope that in future the developers will add some hero who will improve spearmen. So, for now I leave choosing between spearmen and swordsmen up to players. Also, can you tell me how would you form your army if you confront spearmen-oriented army like mine as it will make your cavalry useless?
Salute benevolo lectorem.
 
User avatar
Aluminara
Baron
Baron
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:48 am

Re: [Guide] Human army PvP tactics

Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:55 pm

MARIVS wrote:
Also, can you tell me how would you form your army if you confront spearmen-oriented army like mine as it will make your cavalry useless?


Maybe, but for me, I am not going to spend what time and resource I have verse one army when Cavalry is a better answer for every other army. I see it as a Cavalry army will do better against Lich, Dwarf, and Most human armies than a spear army would. I would love to try (but am most likely giving up on this game) a full Cavalry army bar 4 Priests.

If you could imagine this set up fully flushed out. The crash damage might be enough to push throw the frontline, or close to it, and spread out after the backline.
Image

It is a full 14 unit deployment, with Elena instead of Jacs.
Cirilla - Realm 61 - Athaly - Order of Chaos
Aluminara - Realm 39 - Neferak - Free Lancing
 
User avatar
Aluminara
Baron
Baron
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:48 am

Re: [Guide] Human army PvP tactics

Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:10 pm

Would you agree that Orc Chieftains have a lot of hit points? Sadly none of my Moist Ruins had spearmen to do a test on.
Cirilla - Realm 61 - Athaly - Order of Chaos
Aluminara - Realm 39 - Neferak - Free Lancing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests