sunbow
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Jacques - constructive feedback

Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:46 pm

hi guys,

i know there are many jacques topics already, but most are just complains without going into details (please, no cry answers here!).
especially why he is supposed to be too strong.

we did a lot of testing on server 41 lately.

one point i suggest to change is the amount of hitpoints: as a very strong damage dealer you should not be one of the strongest tanks at the same time.

since there seems to be a lot of confusion about his active skills, let me explain both a bit.

spray and pray (the ultimate) has unlimited range and fires until the ammo is empty. this skill however seems fine to me, since it does not fire into the back row. as an example: i am at castle level 33 and attacked a level 36 castle. level 11 vs level 12 troops. jacques level 43 at 2663 power and 50/50 bonus skill points. with a bronze setup and 2 golds (recalled by elena) i used spray and pray. the result was 6 legionaires died, nothing more. this seems absolutely fine to me.

afterwards i reskilled (0 points in spray and pray, firestorm maxed instead). firestorm does have a limited range and fires for a limited amount of time, however you can target where you want to shoot. this is the skill which should get looked at, since it does allow to target the back row sniping archers or other weak units plus damaging units between the target area and the hero as well. this ability gets stronger with might and allows the player to easily clear 2-3 troops.

in my opinion having 2 active abilities does not make too much sense anyway. you could start with firestorm, use grims to reload and then use spray and pray, but it is better to focus on the passive abilities and just max 1 active skill anyway. so firestorm could get replaced to something else (which would already bring jacques to a more fair version) or like the summoning skills (or gazuls ultimate), firestorm should not pass through units. meaning: if you target the backrow the shots should stop at the first targets hit until there is a clear path.

those ideas only affect the late game, obviously you can get crazy scores if you level up jacques 10 level above your castle level and are ahead of other players as well. e.g. other players are at castle level 17, you are at 20 with a level 30 jacques. this is a different story. as mentioned in another topic, you could decrease the base stats and increased the stats gained per level (starting slowly and getting up more and more to end up with the same end game stats).

constructive feedback answers appreciated!
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Strife
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Re: Jacques - constructive feedback

Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:49 pm

This is a fine piece of feedback with an actual test and suggestions.
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Colombiadragon
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Re: Jacques - constructive feedback

Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:14 pm

Summons were nerfed because you could kill the enemy back row bypassing the front line, firestorm is practically the same, it Should get nerfed by the same principle as summons.
 
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Zinek
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Re: Jacques - constructive feedback

Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:32 am

Colombiadragon wrote:
Summons were nerfed because you could kill the enemy back row bypassing the front line, firestorm is practically the same, it Should get nerfed by the same principle as summons.


Summons only cost two energy jacques cost 3 so it’s fair and balanced.
My player guide for The Art of Conquest. If you have any questions feel free to ask them. You can find me here or on this forum or on the offical AoC discord just @Zinek

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=13293
 
Hoffman72510
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Re: Jacques - constructive feedback

Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:13 pm

Nerfing his hit points is definitely a good idea. I personally don’t like firestorm, it seems like every time I use it he spends the last 5 seconds shooting at nothing, but I do keep it maxed just in case the enemy lines up his heroes in a nice neat row for me, or golden spiders :) Spray and Pray is hit or miss, sometimes he just destroys the entire map and sometimes he only kills a few units. In my opinion it’s his rockets that need to be toned down, at 7/7 a single rocket can destroy an entire pack of level X troops and he shoots several of them per fight. I’ve been a Jacques user since server 52 and I get the most damage out of him by letting him just run rampant and there lies the problem. If his damage was tied into a single active it would be manageable, but with 2 OP actives and insane passive damage it’s just too much.
 
Papawutz
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Re: Jacques - constructive feedback

Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:39 pm

special in the first days of the game he is insane, maybe later are enough counters to beat him, but the first days of a new starting map are the most important to get higher, so he is not balanced, he is in this moment op.
All Monster Bosses are with him easy and easier, with all other heroes you beat them much more later....balanced yeah sure a joke!
His ultimate is crazy, ok it cost 1 more point, but with this he beat all monstergroups on the map, no other hero can do this. In pvp the same, no player, only one with himself can beat him in the back of an army.
Fact is you need only Jacques with lvl 10, after that you are a pvp monster without big strategic, only a click on his umltimate. Grimm in the background to fill his ammo, thats all!
Let him his hitpoints, only nerf the ultimate in range and power, he should not reach the hole map.
 
sunbow
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Re: Jacques - constructive feedback

Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:41 pm

seems like you did not reach the full post :) firestorm is the biggest issue for pvp (backrow snipes). scaling him lower for the early game is needed as pointed out.
 
FBSM
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Re: Jacques - constructive feedback

Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:27 am

In my opinion, the best way to nerf jac is to reduce his skill range (firestorm, rockets, double charge, spray and pray). His range is too huge for someone who can deal a lot of damage. One of the reasons why jac + bronze can be successful is because jac is providing too much cover fire for his bronze units in the battlefield.

By nerfing his range, players must start thinking how they should put jac in the formation. Too far back, you don't have enough early burst damage. But too near to the front, he may not have enough frontliners to protect him and die prematurely in a battle.
 
Papawutz
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Re: Jacques - constructive feedback

Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:54 am

I think they do not wanna nerf him, because all what they want is that players start on a server, play a while and start again on the next one. Thats the big true about such pvp monster.
Litith do not want to nerf the key for generate money for them. The game is a very great one, but you buy normal only 1 time a hero, it cost ~10 Dollar. The most pay not more to this game and if you can play a fair time on a server they earn no money by you. You can build up your armies, level your heroes, collect items, all what you want. After 2 or 3 attacks from a Jacques player and your goldtroops are history you are angry, but after a while you start on a new server again, because this game is cool, maybe next time with a Jacques at your own or you try it with one of the other heroes, now improved. Thats the target of Lilith. Beleave you really they want lose money and nerf their tool for that? We can stop to discuss about a must coming nerf for Jacques!

Hey Lilith show us that this is not the true!
 
hasnain156
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Re: Jacques - constructive feedback

Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:18 am

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